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Is eastern europe for us.
Is eastern europe for us.
| Is eastern europe for us. |
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(89.248.132.---) posts : 149 Date : 09-29-08 20:50 If read many of the posts on this forum over the past few months and bulgaria is most definatly a marmite holiday resrt. Some love Some hate it. I think its a great place to visit. get away from the tourist areas and its a beutiful country. its in some ways a look back the past of what the uk was once like many years ago. apart from the mafia that is. But the problems in bulgaria are they to stay because the country does have its fair share of corruption and that spills over into the tourist areas. alot of what you experience as a pick pocket or prostution is organised crime. We are seen by many as walking cash machines ready to be emptied of all our cash. I think though as tourists we sometimes leave our brains on the plane and put ourselves in positions where we can be exploited by these organised groups. there are some parts of the uk you wouldnt walk around alone or flash your cash around but we do it abroad.if going for a night out in the uk most people would pre book a taxi not hail the first car you see at night. I also think tour operators are to blame for some of the crime in hotels. they after all have the power to send visitors to hotels which have constant complaints. instead they give the same old line " we are working with the hotel to improve your holiday" this means we pay so little per room and make so much profit as a result we will turn a blind eye to theft, poor food, ignorant staff, dirty rooms. I own an apartment near sunny beach and when purchasing some 4 years ago I suspected then that sunny beach would one day be like London. great to visit but wouldnt want to live there. and maybe this is part of the problem, sunny beach is becoming a city and all the hotels and apartments are located right in the heart of bulgarias soho district. And if you visit with a young family you soon think what a mistake and never go back. But if like myself and many other owners and holidaymakers you stay just outside sunny beach and visit when it suit you, your experience is far better and you end up going back time and again. or maybe eastern europe as culteraly to far away from what we see as acceptable. |
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(---.manc.cable.ntl.com) posts : 6858 Date : 09-29-08 21:05 Thanks Nick for an interesting and thought provoking report . . . . . a very good insight 
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(---.pool1.unallocated-111-64.orangehomeds) posts : 581 Date : 09-29-08 21:23 nick, what a great report, I like it because there is no beating about the bush, it has come from your heart. Just one point we do have the Mafia in England. it is called "The government" |
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(---.manc.cable.ntl.com) posts : 6858 Date : 09-29-08 21:26 So true FV
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(89.248.132.---) posts : 149 Date : 09-29-08 23:52 well most people on this forum love Bulgaria thats why we are on here. But some come on here only to slag off Bulgaria with no idea why the country is the why it is. Its as if they went on to last minute.com and typed in £200 budget and up popped Bulgaria and they thought yeh lets give that a go. These people then acted all shocked and hard done by when they arrive at bourgas airport and wonder why theres no duty free shop like in Malaga. Bulgaria has alot of history from its communist days and with that comes alot of problems such as the crime as we see in sunny beach. the reason is these people settled in bulgaria in the fall of communism through the corrupt goverments of its day looking out for themselves. Sunny Beach and Golden Sands were never planned they just happened. the reason behind it is western greed. the goverment during comunism owned all the land. it the sold off plots on the coast for small development and sunny beach was born as a holiday resort for wealthy russians. But in the 90s the corrupt goverment and dare i say mafia started to develop the cheap land for tourism. then add in the western world looking for cheap coastal land to develop and the result is sunny beach. add to that the strip clubs, casinos and your new so called non corrupt goverment has regular income. they dont tell you this in the travel agent but when you understand the country you then feel part of the country as many of us do on here, for good and for bad. we are on a ride which we cant control but if we dont like where its going we can just jump off, but at least we gave it a go. but as i guess with most of the good people on this forum we like the ride because its different. One day there will be change, the bulgarian may one day try to clean up the country, they my drive out the gypsies, they may even elect a new goverment and we can watch from our grandstand seats and be part of the next piece of bulgarian history |
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(---.lns6-c12.dsl.pol.co.uk) posts : 1998 Date : 09-30-08 02:19 Hi Nick So interested in your post. I dont know whether or not you have invested in property in BG or not, but we did consider doing so 5/6 years ago and decided not a good idea. Now I am reading on various forums about the problems investors are having, whether its with management companies or the fact that the coastal resorts are changing year after year. The Black Sea coast has changed without recognistion over the past 6 years and is getting worse every year. Many investors will regret their decision sooner or later. I have many BG friends in their 30s who have been brought up with communisum and we have spent many hours listening to their stories about their early years. As Brits we dont appreciate or understand what life has been like for these people. It upsets us so much when I read and hear some reports from first time visitors to BG. As Brits we will never really understand what these nations have had to endure over many years. |
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(---.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) posts : 19 Date : 09-30-08 02:46 Sunny Beach and Golden Sands were actually planned and were not built for wealthy Russians. Both resorts were initially developed in the 1950s and 1960s with the idea of attracting Westerners. And they did have their fair share of French, Germans, Brits and Scandinavians over the following decades. Lots of Russians went there too but only they were not rich as during the existence of the Soviet Union there was no such thing as "rich Russians". These only emerged with the fall of the Soviet Union and the plundering of state assets by whoever could lay their hands on them - people like Abramovitch, for example. Anyway, rich Russians do not go to Bulgaria - they are in Spain, France, Italy and of course, London. The Russians going to Bulgaria are at best only middle class. So until the 1990s Sunny Beach and Golden Sands were underdeveloped but pleasant - the massive building started only afterwards and only because the Bulgarians saw there was a great demand for holiday properties (otherwise known as "investment") from the Brits and the Irish. So Anglo-saxon and Bulgarian GREED is what has destroyed the Bulgarian coast. The fact is, if it were not for the credit crunch, the Brits and Irish would still have been buying like crazy over there. None of these so called "investors" ever cared about corruption, did they? They only sqeal when they see that they start losing money on their "investments". And lose money in Bulgaria they will, in a big way. The reality is that the coast has already been destroyed and there will be at least 15-20 years before there any decent infrastructure is put in place - I mean water treatment plants, roads, landfills, etc. Keep waiting though... |
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(---.lns6-c12.dsl.pol.co.uk) posts : 1998 Date : 09-30-08 03:01 Didn't think I'd ever agree with you Really. BUT I step down and must admit I agree 100% with the above post. A great deal of property companies are now folding as the Brits and Irish investors dry up...now they are focusing on the Russians, WL |
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(---.219.om.nwlgcore.org) posts : 6858 Date : 09-30-08 09:51 Very interesting thread to read
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(89.248.132.---) posts : 149 Date : 09-30-08 10:41 interesting post really, As an investor myself I can only go off what the people who live there say and they say the resorts were only ever designed to be small. If you speak to these people they will also tell you that the land was sold to foriegn developers for the purpose of development. it was these developers that saw the west as a why to make loads of money quickly. I think the problem always happens when the history books tell a different story to what the bulgarians who live there tell. very few bulgrians have profitted from tourism. just drive into the mountains to tervel and you will see for yourself. and as someone who bought a cheap apartment 4 years ago I now know I wont profit either. Simply because prices will fall in the next 2 years because people cant borrow to purchase and cash buyers will only pay bottom price. Im no expert on Bulgaria but i did my research before I bought and thought it was a risk worth taking. I wont make any money but i will have a breathtaking country outside my front door. One interesting point to make, most property owners in bulgaria are average joes, most investors work 48weeks a year and look forward to their break to the sun, most owners are proud of what they have been able to buy with what is very little money. for us bulgaria is and always will be our piece of paradise. People will slag it off, the country will at some point fall into a recession but as long as the sun shines we will stick by it. |
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(---.renf.cable.ntl.com) posts : 2486 Date : 09-30-08 11:40 very interesting post ,good reading ............. a bit miffed about Really s "at best the russians are ONLY middle class " i am working class so what does that make me ....... 
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(---.intuition.com) posts : 196 Date : 09-30-08 11:56 This is the view I have from my apartment in Kosharitsa near SB http://www.bulgarianproperties.com/Bulgaria/Kosharitsa.html On holiday I just say, "that's SB down there, the real Bulgaria up here". All the Las Vegas style madness of SB is just concentrated in a tiny area really .. tiny in relation to the overall size of Bulgaria. Pulling back from it really gives u a sense of perpective.. P. |
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(---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) posts : 22 Date : 09-30-08 20:41 Very interesting reading.I have got to agree bulgaria is very special to me. I have made some wonderful friends,and also travelled to the real bulgaria.Long may i visit and still enjoy. |
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(---.lns6-c12.dsl.pol.co.uk) posts : 1998 Date : 09-30-08 22:13 Well hello there CarolV. Pleased to see that you're still visiting this site WL |
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(---.pool1.unallocated-107-0.orangehomedsl) posts : 13 Date : 09-30-08 23:32 'Really' I agree 100% with your comments. Correct to the letter. If I said the same I will be condemded on here tough.It is good somebody else is accepted on here for posting the REAL(LY) BULGARIA. C.mon bring on the loosing of money of the investmentors and lets see their real colour and love to BG.Is there any? Nick you have started it just to push a little advertisement on here. good on you or maybe to fill not lonely with your choice of country to invest and in need of reassuring from others.Comforting eh? Your comments down the history lane were inacurate and absent of facts-simply from a investors point of view with limited knowledge of the place. Dublin 1970(hope this is not your year of birth). The link you are showing us on here with the fotos IS NOT THE CORRECT ANGLE, VIEW AND THE HILLS IN FRONT OF IT some of the fotos ARE NOT BELOW KOSHARITSA. THATS A FACT MY DEAR. these are fotos from estate agent's site and are FAKE! So please dont lie to yourself, go check the place, take fotos from actually your hole and Please then AND ONLY THEN you are brave enough show them to us on here. OR BETTER DO YOU WANT ME TO ARRANGE STRAIGHT AWAY SOMEBODY TO GO THERE AT THE CRACK OF DAWN, TAKE FOTOS AND PLASTER THEM ON HERE so after that we can continue with the discussion. Love this topic or Mickey. |
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(---.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) posts : 4527 Date : 10-01-08 16:30 lets get one thing straight Bulgaria isnt spain etc, just look at Varna airport little more than a cattle shed, the investors will ruin a beautiful country building new complexes no one can get flights to, the seedier side also need cleaning up Id prefer not to have prostitute on the street or battery operated appliances for sale next tothe fsgs,but then again go to any resort in any country there mostly the same |
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(89.248.132.---) posts : 149 Date : 10-01-08 23:29 thanks for your insight "i love this topic or mickey" and you are correct in that I like most investors had or have very little knowledge of Bulgaria, but with every visit my eyes are being opened, long ago went the rose coloured specs and with every visit I see the true bulgaria. But as i said the country has grown on me even with its faults. If I was a true investor i would have sold up and gone a couple years ago when the euor was good and brits had more money than sense, for some reason I decided to stick with it even though it will cost me money as prices fall. Most of what ive learned about bulgaria has come from local people but as views differ on the forums we dont realy know what right or wrong the only thing we do know is unlike some holiday resorts bulgaria is full of history, Its just a shame most visitors only care about the few miles of beach. I must say my apartment is in the village of Kosharitsa and those photos on that agents site are not accurate, they look to 2 different photos put together. the village isnt that high up and the view to the beach isnt that clear. they say never trust an estate agent and there your proof. |
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(89.248.132.---) posts : 149 Date : 10-01-08 23:42 what I would like to add on the investors I know who bought in bulgaria is its only a matter of time before at least 3 quarters of the ones I know cut their loses. The problem is the rental returns are just to small to make a profit, the values are not rising and the Bulgarian goverment still want their 20%. most a waiting for the 5 years so they dont have to pay capital gains tax which for many is only 12months away. 3 investors are even considering leaving the apartment empty and have not paid the upkeep for 2 years now. Nobody realy like investors but without people willing to invest in a country a take a risk then tour operates would stay away and cheap flights would never happen. Good or Bad. but thats a whole other forum topic. |
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(---.b-ras1.cld.dublin.eircom.net) posts : 196 Date : 10-02-08 01:40 ok ok so he view is more like this: http://www.anabellasunshine.com/properties/002_01_i.jpg but still, it's better than actually being in SB..
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(---.pool1.Enfield-GLN3000-BAS0001.orangeh) posts : 13 Date : 10-03-08 22:27 good you are learning Irish geezer but give us the true foto with even flatter view without selecting the view and with strong binoculars looking over the rusty village and the strong and unavoidable gypsy quarters down below to complement the whole experience.views in BG can be found everywhere -the infrastructure is what is at ground zero level and this is poisoning the whole experience dont you think. |
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(---.lei3.cable.ntl.com) posts : 2201 Date : 10-03-08 22:51 What are you going on about Mikey? Whats with the new name? |
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(---.pool1.Enfield-GLN3000-BAS0001.orangeh) posts : 13 Date : 10-06-08 01:34 do you like it Arron
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(---.lei3.cable.ntl.com) posts : 2201 Date : 10-06-08 21:42 It does have a kind of ring to it, yes!
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(78.144.159.---) posts : 6795 Date : 10-06-08 21:50 Thats more like it Dublin Our friends purchased in sunset aparts Kosharitsa 2 yeras ago, they have had prob after prob with builders etc but hopefully next year they will be in !!! and maybe i may get back to BG ! LL |
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(212.183.134.---) posts : 1349 Date : 10-07-08 01:57 can i add a bit here. in the scottish sunday mail over the last few weeks we have read stories of people investing in bulgarian properties AlLEGEDLY being sold thru a subsidery (or 2 brothrrs that worked for them)of remax and they have all LOST thousands of pounds as the properties are not ready on time or there are no properties to invest in. this also gives bad press for bulgaria - a country that i love. so who is in the wrong over the investments - the buyers for being nieve or the agents selling the properties. |
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(---.lns6-c12.dsl.pol.co.uk) posts : 1998 Date : 10-07-08 02:54 So many property developers in BG are now going under. Would not recommend buying off plan ever again...but some cannot refuse a deal that sounds too good to be true  Resales are a thing of the past ...anyone going to invest are going for new build. Anyone with property now will have to hang onto it...and from experience of BG over the years, what is last year's new build going to look like in 5/10 years time 
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(---.pool1.unallocated-107-0.orangehomedsl) posts : 13 Date : 10-08-08 02:48 Terrible to say(I dont want to even think about it) what the new build now or few years ago will look in 5/10 years.lady from walles It could be with a lot more maintenance charges,little improvement in the infrastructure ,it could be left on its own accord places left to rot with little interest, it could be demolishing some concretes to clear some messy jobs,Who knows? Or it could become paradise on earth. I could be all fantasies about the place or all wrongs up in your mind only. In any case the money spent there would not be well spent.Time will tell. I think. |
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